More Vicious Than Rape
Male Rape "None," the police officer in charge reported to my student.
That was the answer to how many instances of rape of males and boys had been reported in the city (it happened to be Boston, where I was teaching at the time) in the previous year.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/20/111011.shtml
More Vicious Than Rape
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/11/congos_wounds_o.php
I don't exactly consider myself a feminist, but this is an issue about which I can easily get enraged. Yesyesyes, this article talks about male rape (and I have included the link to Susan Estrich's article because I printed 2 lines from it.)
However, the important article is the one below it titled "More Vicious Than Rape". Yes, it's gawdawful. However, it's important that you read it because it is more important than the one on male rape.
Women all over the world are being used for terrible sexual purposes. Either as weapons in war, or by having their genitals scraped away with broken glass or rusty metal--with no anesthesia--by the muslims (when they are not having acid thrown in their faces, or burned in suttee, or as victims of an 'honor killing'--or just thrown away in China), woman are treated like garbage all over the world. This must be addressed before we even get to the subject of male rape.
Not only are the numbers SO entirely disproportionate, but the size and strength differential of men vs. women is enormous. In so many societies, woman also have no social power with which to deal with this. At least, with a man--where so often these rapes happen in prison--a relatively fair fight could be had, one-on-one. With a woman, she often must face a foe who weighs a hundred pounds more than she does. Men that rape women are deliberately picking on someone weaker and smaller than themselves--and it's time someone got serious about stopping it.
And who is it that must get serious about it? It's the MEN. I have NEVER heard a man speak out against the rape of women. Never.
In all my 48 years, never have I heard ONE man say it is wrong. Most especially never have I heard a man say it to other men--in a group of only men. In EVERY SINGLE class I had in school, in which the subject was violence against women, there was always a guy who jumped up--and before a single sentence could be uttered on our behalf--he'd say "well, um, well um, what about women who hit men, huh, huhh?" And then everyone would groan and the round-robin would start and the subject would be nullified--as if what he said evened things out and made them commensurate.
NOT ONE MAN EVER STOOD UP AND SAID "Raping women is wrong, it's weak, and I deplore it"--and then shut his mouth and sat down!
Even all the fine men I know on the Internet--and I know some good ones--have never said it, either. The subject hasn't always come up, but with the spate of continual 'honor' killings, rapes, and murders of the women who are accosted by muslims, or who walk around Europe uncovered, there has been plenty of opportunity for them to comment.
It is men that have the power--and men listen to other men. It's time MEN spoke out against rape; that may give us gals a little breathing room in which to consider how they'd feel if it happened to them.
posted by VerityINK at 2:35 PM
Information:
51 Comments:
Donal
Men do say that rape is wrong when it happens to a wife, a sister , a mother or a daughter- of their own .
Not when it happens to other men's female realtives...
This abomination still lives with us and is a stain on our society .
Thanks for writing about it .
batya
Thanks for writing. I'd feel better if a man that does not know me were to think my rape is wrong. Unil men think EVERY woman's rape is wrong, it won't lessen.
My late despised men who raped, called them less than men and not worthy of the name "man"!
I worked at a children's shelter, and you can't count the percentage of children who came in as abused and turned into abusers! Especially of younger children, it was awful how we had to hawkeye these already unhappy children, especially at night!
The use and abuse of those who are weaker in strength is abomination. It used to be strength was measured by and respected for it's protection of the weaker and powerless! It's another symptom of a fallen, sinfilled world!
Remember in Genesis, when G*D confronted all 3 parties to the disobedience, satan was told that the "seed" of the woman would crush his head. Why do you think there have been so many moves against women, hatred from the Pit, and children, fear from the Pit!
It is all satanically inspired, there are spiritual dimensions that are untouched by a G*D hating people! i.e. mohammadism!
tmw
I'll try and speak up more about it, Donal. That's something I'd never really thought of before.
Thank you, BOB. TMW, that's good to hear--now if we can just get the men to talk to other men (and not just in front of us to look good.)
It's nice to see you write longer things, Donal.
Thanks, BOB. Now that my arm is healing so well, I can type easily again! It's nice to get back into writing!
donal
RAPE IS WRONG. IT'S MORE THAN WRONG...AND ANY MAN WHO THINK OTHERWISE SHOULD BE SHOT! IN FACT I WOULDN'T CALL THEM MEN.
Thank you, Elbow, Elmbro, Elbro!
My husband has no trouble calling a rapist the vilest names you can think of. He did this even before his sister was kidnapped and raped by a serial rapist (also a serial killer). Thank the Lord that my sister-in-law, a woman wise in the ways of the world, managed to escape before the bastard killed her; he had already killed three women in his spree.
I read the link about fistulas. And I know of one case: a baby who was raped by her stepfather.
An important post, Donal. Men need to speak up and show good character. And just where are the Hollywood types on this issue of the Muslim abuse of women? Nowhere to be seen or heard!
DONAL I was saddened and sickened by what I read here. In the first Gulf War, everyone in Kuwait that had a pulse was raped by Hussein's legions. I'll spare you the details, but when we arrived summary justice was often the order of the day. I do have to differ with you on something you wrote.
I have NEVER heard any of my friends speak kindly of rapists, as a matter of fact the opposite is true. The statutory rape laws are a completely different matter. Even now as a civilian all of the men I associate with would love to throw a rope over a tree for ANY convicted rapist. To be perfectly clear, they don't scream this from the mountaintop. Maybe it's the shame involved. After all 99.9% of all rapists are men. So there is a bit of "collective" shame that men are practically the only perpetrators of this horrible crime.
Since this a nation of laws, most American men deal with this crime against their loved ones through the courts. Officially, "most" is 51%. You would probably be shocked at how many of these predatory animals meet their end in some other way, if you get my drift. As the father of a son and a daughter, I'll leave it up to you to figure out which group I belong in.
How sad that such a wonderful experience between two consenting adults can be made into such an evil abomination. The revulsion is hard to put into words.
Morgan
You're probably right, you have never heard me say that rape is wrong or
bad.
Nor have you heard me say that murder or child molestation is wrong or
bad. Its self evident!
What I have said about each of those things is that they are deserving of capital punishment.
When we guys talk about these things we speak of horse whipping, castration and the electric chair but never can I remember a guy saying that rape is wrong or bad. Its too much of an understatement.
I agree with you Warren. I know for a fact that a certain % of the murder rate between men is due to vengence from rape. The % is admittedly small, but it's there. Whether it occurs in jail or in a bar, or a radio gets thrown into a bath tub (don't ask) this sort of thing happens a lot!
Is it a fuc-ed up gene or a societal problem or both, I don't know. But it doesn't matter, justice HAS to be dealt on this issue.
Morgan
Yes, Warren--it might well be an understatement--but were that so I'd expect there to be less of it.
And, yes, Jingo, I know how YOU'D deal with it Anybody that would happily beat the snot out of a draft-dodger would certainly visit whoop ass on a rapist (and I'd happily applaud you!)
However, I want women to be so valued in society that more men speak out about this--and that those men mind just as much when a woman they don't know gets raped as they would were it their own daughters.
I want men who'll sit down WITH A GROUP OF MEN, and talk about rape when there's no women present. We see the movies where the guys get together in the backroom for brandy and cigars, or a game of poker or football, but I've never seen a movie where men talk about rape at ALL--especially not to other men.
AoW--My God, hon, that sounds particularly horrific. That poor woman! She was lucky; in college, I did a 40-page paper on serial killers. They don't usually do less violence than they've done the last time; violence usually escalates (I know you know that.)
And I might ad--stunts like in the Nifong debacle don't help this situation at ALL. Women have to deal honestly with the court system if they want to be taken seriously when reporting violence. If the women are going to lie or exaggerate it, what's to make the police hurry to aid the next call they get where it's a feature?
Sometime back,on FPM,there was a debate concerning the no infamous "Duke rape'' case. At that time I clearly said that no woman EVER derserves to be raped,regardless of her dress,her character or behavoir. Rape,aside from a heinous crime of violence is also about power,control and/or debasement. It is also,for the male who commits it, about impotence,not so much in the physical,which it is,but also in the emotional,rapists are cowards,among other things,and are also men entirely unable to form relationships of any kind with women. Pornography is also a form of rape,a farily large number of men who commit this crime say it was pornography,often of a sado/masochistic,bondage kind,that inspired them to commit their crimes. Pornography objectivizes women and presents the awful excuse of women ''wanting it''. No woman(or man) ever ''wants'' to be raped. In your own experince Donal,you were fortunate not to have run afoul of "Socrates'',aka Gerald Wayne Reynolds,a man,in my opinion would surely have raped you,had he the chance. I had that though,darkly,at the back of my mind when I first locked horns with him. I knew he hated me,among a number of reasons,but primarly because you and I became friends and also because you immediatly rebuffed his filthy advances. Time and again,when he would hector you with the filthiest crap,I was there,time and again,telling him to shut up until,not only for your sake and your honor,I challegened him to a face to face confrontation,and I was fully willing to settle the matter violently,that was my intention with him all along. To this day,the offer still stands. And I don't recall at the time any other man on FPM who came to your defense. I once chased some punk who had been bothering one of my younger sisters in school. I chased this kid down the main street in my hometown,in board daylight for four blocks until I gaught him and beat him almost to a pulp. I do remember he wet himself and the message soon got around not to mess with Johnnymacs two kid sisters. My sisters had the benfit of having five brothers to protect them. I'm a husband,who will defend his wife to the death,and will still defend his two kid sisters,and I'll defend you too.Johhnymac.
As I stated Donal,it was not only for your sake that I wanted to beat the crap out of Socrates,the guy just plain pissed me off. I hated him and his insults to me,to my Anne,to you and all the other women and men at FPM,I hated his politics and I just HATED HIM! J'Mac.
DONAL you know what the sad part is? I don't see ANY of this changing. Honestly. There will always be some idiot with a hard one and without a conscience. They are devoid of the things we consider "human." And nearly as bad, there will be gold-digging bimbos like the hooker in the Duke rape case who screw it up for true rape victims. For people who don't consider things deeply, cases like that skew their thoughts unfortunately.
Morgan
That's true, JohnnyMac--and I really DID, and DO, appreciate it (and that was before Morgan had come along, before Prairieson and some of the others I know now, posted at FPM. Warren, Elbro, and the rest don't post there at all, of course.)
You were, indeed, one of the few who spoke up; I think you even got thrown off the board once for your trouble! LOL! You were a brave guy then, and you're my hero now!
BTW, we had a brother who was NOT like that and, let me tell you, your sisters appreciated that more than you'll ever know. I know we would have!
Thank you, friend, but if Socrates would've DARED come here and try anything I'd gladly have him 'make my day'--and I told him so. Doug Giles, that good writer at TownHall.com, says it's vital that women know how to shoot a gun--he's taught both his daughters, and they know self-defense, too!
I wouldn't have batted an eye.
Oh,and incidently gals,you DO have power. Its called Colt,Smith&Wesson,Ruger,Browning,Beretta,aka a handgun,best rape defense in the world. For more info,check out "Second Amendment Sisters'' at secondamendmentsisters.com Johnnymac.
JM I have no doubt you would do that! I always liked your fiestyness homeboy! You're one of those guys I could stand back to back in a bar with.
Morgan
About statutory rape laws--I don't know where to draw the line. Kids are having sex at such an early age these days, this issue needs to be clarified. I DO agree that guys in their 20's shouldn't be having sex with girls in their teens--and a 17 year-old doesn't need to be having sex with a 12 year old. I don't know what the hell to do about the rest of it.
My views on sex are pretty conservative--I don't think anybody should be having sex in high school! I know I wasn't.
I love you two! LOL!
Thanks Mrs. D. Believe me,I don't say things like that just to feel good about myself,I MEAN IT!As much as I like to make friends and make folks happy,there is something in me,put there by the way my Dad bought me and my four other brothers up,not only to respect women,but to be protective of them as well. I once had a psycologist call me an "Earth Father'' No,rape is wrong at EVERY level.J'mac.
Well thanks Morgan. Trouble was,when I drank,I'd start shit and walk away. I was not a fun guy when I drank. I haven't in sixteen years(and boy am I thirsty,just kidding) but thanks just the same,I'd want you one my side too. When you're raised in a Irish-American Catholic family with seven kids,brother,you learn how to punch,believe me,and duck too!J'Mac.
Donal said:
"but were that so I'd expect there to be less of it."
I've thought about that in connection with some things that I'd call related. (Why are there so many more serial murderers, why are there so many child abductions, why is there so much more child abuse...)
Except for muslin gang-rapes, I don't necessary believe there are any more, proportionate to the population, than there ever were.
What I do believe is that they are more widely and readily reported. Easy communication has made this possible.
I advise every woman that has the moxie to get a license, carry a gun and learn how to use it. The women in my household do.
(ditto, Morgan!)
"Is it a fuc-ed up gene or a societal problem or both, I don't know. But it doesn't matter, justice HAS to be dealt on this issue."
As a co-worker noted, the only reason than some people are alive is because its illegal to kill them!
We women are only 50% of society. I think we've said all we can say about it. We desperately need the other 50% of society to put THEIR energies into stopping it--as hard as if it were happening to THEM.
THAT'S why I brought it up. It doesn't happen to men the way it does women (and most guys have enough sense to stay out of jails where it might) so many men just turn a blind eye to it, or lump it together with all 'domestic violence'--where the issue of women hitting men quickly dominates.
More men need to mind greatly about rape--even if it doesn't happen to them and theirs.
Stautory rape is a mess waiting to happen. Some sanity has to be made of this soon. There's nothing good or just about sending a 17 yr. old boy to the slammer for having sex with his consenting 15 yr.old girlfriend. Or make it 18&16, it's the same.
When I played football in high school I got the short course in groupies. I wasn't the only one. My point is that there are plenty of sexually aggressive young girls and that needs to be taken into account. If not, we're left with insane laws, which hurts us all. Maybe some kinda age difference scale should be looked at, it's only common sense, right?
Morgan
If the moral men of the world were speaking out against it as much as you say, there'd be less rape--and rapists would get longer jail sentences. The tacit approval that many men give it is part of the problem.
Far too many men think rape 'isn't that bad', or that women deserve it, or that women 'want it' etc. Far too many men get off on it. Rape statistics tell that that is so.
What is particularly disturbing to me was to be in every psych class, criminology class, human services class, philosophy class, history class etc. and EVERY SINGLE TIME it was mentioned, the women were shut up--usually by someone telling them they were 'a feminist'--BEFORE THEY'D EVEN VOICED ONE THOUGHT ON THE SUBJECT.
It's fine for guys to come here and tell me that plenty of men mind it--but then, I'd have to ask myself why are there so many rapes, still?
And, yes, everybody minds murder--but women can murder other women women can murder men; a gun is a great equalizer. Men rape women, mostly. It is a crime that has no equal female-on-male equivalent. The playing field cannot be leveled thusly. I am only asking the perpetrators to to stop their own crime.
I understand that collectively, that's a bit of a stretch--and maybe men really are divided into two camps--those who rape and those who do not. But, as a woman, you're all on the same side to us because I have to be afraid of EVERY man who crosses my path in a dark alley. I don't have the luxury of knowing which are the good guys and which are not, on sight. And I for one, am very tired of that.
Absolutely. Jingo. When I was a girl, things were easier. Girls didn't much have sex in high school, so the line was easier to see. Heck, now I hear of kids 9 and 10 having sex--it's just damn nonsense.
Girls can be PLENTY aggressive--and some hit puberty earlier than a guy would, so they think they're ready.
No, my life has not been filled with Christian men (besides my dear husband). The men who perpetrate such violence are not Christian either. They are the ones about which I am talking.
And that is the very problem. Men who think women are there to be used (look at the number of men who kill women who leave them) and woman who do not conduct themselves honorably.
Rape and Molestation are examples of a sexually morally corrupt nation.
It's sad this sort of stuff happens.
"insofar as comment beyond the self-evident is merited".
Considering the number of rapes that still go on, maybe the outrage YOU feel isn't shared by as many as you think.
And, even if it was, that outrage hasn't been enough to staunch the flow of rapes that continue to happen, so it's not enough.
Rob, I could not rape another woman. ANY woman is strong enough to keep me from entering her. A man raping a man is a somewhat a fair fight. A man raping a woman never is. This is a MALE problem; you men need to address it. Men listen to other men; you are on equal footing. A woman
saying 'please don't rape me' isn't going to have a man--who is ALWAYS stronger than she is--say 'okay, I won't'. That's a case of the weaker having to rely on the mercy of the stronger.
History has shown us, as in war, that that doesn't work very well. The men need to address their fellow men. THEY are strong enough to stop those who rape.
I admire most the men that have come here and not made excuses--not told me that I am wrong, or too much of a feminist.
Men are not the victims of this crime, for the most part. They do not know what it is like to ALWAYS have to be so careful, never leave our windows open, never walk down a dark alley, never be alone with man we do not know well. (And then still get blamed if it happens.)
You don't know what it's like to ALWAYS be at the mercy of someone who is stronger and bigger than you are--ALWAYS--those that create chastity belts and shar'ia laws.
You cannot tell me that I have to solve this problem among YOU. You cannot tell me that I shouldn't be so incensed about women getting hurt in this world--or that any mention of it puts me in the camp of Andrea Dworkin.
A good man MINDS that women are being hurt. A good man feels weak and nutless when others prey on those who are weaker than they are. A good man can understand how it is to feel powerless without calling me down about any words I have said over it--because a good man is bothered by this, too.
Donal, those are nothing if not beautiful, beautiful words. Thank you for speaking about this. It means so much to all of us!
Thank you, Cassie. It's hard always having to rely on the mercy, or have faith in the goodness of someone else, for your own personal safety. In this world, it's taken me a long time to trust men. I've seen a lot of awfulness; the paper on serial killers gave me nightmares for years. This is an issue very dear to my heart. Unfortunately, I always think of the day that men would choose not to be so decent to us. What on earth would we do then?
Living well at the whim of someone else is not fun. It's a kindness that they can always withdraw--and for any reason--even an irrational one. (Or, perhaps, especially because of an irrational one.)
Imagine--having to live within the bounds of someone else's moral and sexual irrationality. Men can solve this problem--if only they would.
Irreversible crimes deserve irreversible punishment.
Rape, murder, child molestation - all of these crimes deserve nothing less than death.
Men do not know what it's like to live thoroughly depending on someone stronger's largess.
In America, with virtually no class system, they do not know tyranny of that sort.
Sexual tyranny is the worst of all; being physically hurt and invaded gets into your mind. Your feeling can't help being involved the way a punch to the jaw would not.
Having to *hope* that someone who could hurt does not - and who you cannot fight off - is something men do not have to face.
Oh Warren, go ahead and state the *obvious*. Don't be afraid to make us females feel a liitle dab protected!
Well, I wouldn't mind a bit, Mr. B! We have SO many child molesters up here in Seattle, it'd make ya sick! Some poor kid is getting snatched every week!
Thank you Rob, for taking a stand, too!
DONAL I read your last comment. The fact that so many rapists and child molesters walk the streets makes me secretly wish for a "Star Chamber" type of solution sometimes. Do you remember that movie?
Morgan
No, I don't, hon...
I am having a hard time getting through to my daughter, she's at that teenage "invulnerable", it won't happen to me syndrome! She has had a small taste, an aquaintance of her's, who's a total idiot, has been stalked twice because of myspace.com! But she gets all huffy when her brother tries to protect her, "I can take care of myself!" is the warcry. :sigh: But we still guard her even if she resents it! Her brother is really good about it, though he gets exasperated with her attitude, he loves her too much! Hopefully she'll "get it" soon, before I lock her up!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
All the men I know speak up and say it's wrong. I guess the exception that I've heard is when a woman leads a man on, they are in the act, and then she says "No".
The excuse that I find particularly disgusting is when it's a young woman, dressed up like an adult, in a bar, leading the guy on, and then he gets caught and says "But,,, she had ID, blah, blah, blah." That kind of cavalier attitude about sex is pretty disgusting.
I think the reason you don't hear about men raping men is because it's terribly humiliating and would involve sodomy.
I heard about a case in Norway where a woman was found guilty of raping a guy at a party. He had passed out and when he "came to" she was .... well you know... HE sued her and won.
Well, Eyes, THAT was a one-in-million shot!
However, besides that very unusual circumstance, women don't need to stop other women from raping men! MEN need to speak out and stop other men from raping women--they are on equal footing, and are equally strong.
Rape won't stop until MEN are serious about stopping it.
TMW--I'm willing to bet your dear daughter secretly likes what her brother is doing. Imagine--and please tell her--what those of us have gone through, and felt (unloved) by our brothers who didn't care and did not step in and help us out.
My brother and I do not speak to this day. Neither do he and sis. He not only did not guard us from harm, he was unbearably critical of us, abusively so; he added to the harm.
He was so busy 'evaluating' what kind of sisters we were, he forgot to look at what kind of a brother he was being to us.
Like TMW's late, my hubby has deplored the rape of all women. While watching the news, when a rape case comes up, his jaw will invariably clench, and he will usually say something along the lines of, "I'd like to have five minutes with that coward."
Rapists deserve the death penalty. Instantly.
Sounds like you married a mister like our Jingoist! (I know I did...wink!).
Dear God,as we speak,I just saw a story on Free republic.com just now. (12/21) of a 46-year old Canadian man charged with raping an 18-month old child. Words fail me. Part of me doesn't want to believe such a thing could happen,but as Pliny the Elder once said "Nothing human is foreign to me''. God in Heaven this poor child. This is the kind of person that you tie to a post and then turn a flame-thrower on...and thats just for starters..this is going to bother me all weekend. J'Mac.
Oh, J'MAC, how gawdawful. I'm so sorry. I hate to think of you bothered all weekend. I'll be thinking of you and Anne. With wonderful guys like you, you're always there to counteract the negative!
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