Thursday, May 03, 2007

MUST READ: Jonah Debates Oxford

Oxford’s Preposterous Proposition
By Jonah Goldberg

Last week, I appeared at the Oxford Union to debate the proposition: “This House regrets the founding of The United States of America.” Such is the extent of anti-Americanism out there that this was considered to be a reasonable debate topic by Britain’s best and brightest.

It was an exhilarating and daunting experience. I do a lot of campus speaking and yet, going in, this felt like the functional equivalent of Rose Bowl. Ultimately, it turned out otherwise. But I only really realized that in retrospect.



Anonymous bobcat said...

Hey, Jonah puts up a good argument - and in their own style, as it were. Good show!

5:17 PM  
Blogger Always On Watch Two said...

A friend of mine emailed me this link a few minutes ago.

Surreal that such a topic should be the debate resolution at Oxford Union!

5:23 PM  
Blogger VerityINK said...

Yes, I wonder what it would be named in the German? Had it not been for us, it would've been. I don't suppose those bratty spoilers gave that any thought!

6:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW! That was a powerful article! Thank you so much DONAL. Jonah is on my top ten list for sure. Is there a clip of the actual debate on youtube somewhere? How did you manage to find such a brilliant piece? Well done!


7:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well,too bad for this bunch of tea-swilling Limeys.Intellectuals my ass.As if England had anything to do with the founding of the Untied States. We out shot their army and won our freedom. "Should the Untied States ever been founded''. What a question. Where would England be had it not? Speaking German. Its a pointless debate. We're here, two hundred and twenty-eight years later and "Great'' Britian? Not so "Great' any more if you ask me. Given a few more years and it will be Londonistan completly. Johnnymac.

7:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Donal! Actually "England'' is German, or more precisely, "Englande'', from the "Angles'', an early Germanic tribe of settlers, "Britian'' is Roman. J'Mac

7:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Johnny how are you man! Good to see you. Maybe you can correct me, but in my reading of Claudius, "Britain" is a Roman mispronunciation which comes from the aboriginal (Celtic) word briton (brEYEtON) which means "blue people". When going into battle the warriors would often go naked and painted blue from head to toe. This tactic could also backfire when the disciplined armies of the Rman legions were facing you!

OUR founding was more than a result of out-shooting the Brits. Some would call it a perfect storm contriving to create America. They were truly stretched thin around the world and decided it would be far more profitable to trade with us than to continue to pour resources into a battle that they KNEW France wasn't going to be able to take advantage of either.

It's my opinion that HE played a part in creating this "perfect storm" of circumstances that resulted in our nationhood.

I worry about Britain's future too.


8:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My mistake. The Celts were NOT the original culture in England. Sorry. For those who are interested in a GREAT historical novel about Greta Britain, from prehistoric times to the present, get "Sarum" by Edward Rutherford. It's a towering epic! Pack a lunch because you won't be able to put it down.


8:24 PM  
Blogger VerityINK said...

I thought the Angles were from the continent, the Saxons were the indigenous people?

From Wikipedia:

The Angles is a modern English word for a Germanic-speaking people who took their name from the cultural ancestor of Angeln, a modern district located in Schleswig, Germany. Ancient Angeln preceded all modern national distinctions and was probably not coterminous with the modern. For more information, see under Angeln.

Shiit, I just read the Saxon are Germanic, too--Morgan, can you help us out?

10:02 PM  
Blogger The Merry Widow said...

One of the more original peoples were the picts, who were being pushed out, the saxons and angles were germanic tribes that pushed or enslaved the Britons who were Romanized, the fwench are a germanic tribe also, if you can believe it. The celts were pushed up into Scotland and Hadrian's Wall was built to keep them there!
The Romans first ran into the celts in Italy, they fared badly. Which is WHY the Romans developed the weapons and tactics that they did, they didn't want to get whopped by the celts again! Which is one reason why northern Italians tend to be taller and fairer than the latan Romans of the south! Add in more germanic tribes...lombards...
And it is another reason why the Romans spread north and west, they wanted to put the hurt on the celts and frankly destroy them! They drove them out of France pretty much across the strait to Briton and north to Scotland. Which is where I come in...


2:52 AM  
Anonymous Les Ismore said...

I am impressed with your interpretation of early British history. Very well read.

5:43 AM  
Blogger VerityINK said...

Thanks, Morgan. I read about 100 pieces a day. It's much harder choosing what to leave off then choosing what to have. I have to read so widely, not only to back up the info, but also, to make sure something isn't being backed by or some such.

Jonah, Lucianne's son, is always a dependable source. And I love the way he writes.

11:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Morgan,thanks for the e-mails. ''Britania'' is the name the Romans gave England. "Hibernia'' was Ireland, ''Scotia'' was Scotland. Every country in Western and Eastern Europe was named by the Romans. J'Mac.

5:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well done TMW!
Thanks Les this stuff is fun! Did you read the Goldberg article? It's fascinating.
Johnny I knew about Hibernia, but I've always wondered why it didn't survive as the name. There are societies that call themselves the Hibernians, but why the name Ireland?


6:01 PM  
Anonymous Patsy said...

Wow, Mr. Goldberg did a magnificent job stating our case and representing our nation. Makes you proud to be an American. Well done, Jonah!

11:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Patsy until yesterday I had no idea that Jonah is the son of Lucianne Goldberg, I've never known much about her, but I've read Jonah's brilliant articles. Jinny at FPM has said that Lucianne even has her own political website. I'll have to take a look.


12:59 PM  
Anonymous Patsy said...

I didn't know that until you just enlightened me, Morgan. I visit Lucianne regularly. It's a good conservative website, which controls the posters well. Nothing like the nonsensical crap that goes on at FPM.

Of course, with a closed forum membership, like we have with eHumana, we've achieved an advanced level of civilized discourse where we can exchange ideas, experiences & opinions freely with respect and comraderie without vitriol. Has anyone talked to you about becoming a member? You seem ideally suited for our little group.

2:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Patsy as a matter of fact DONAL and Prairieson have mentioned it and I never followed up. Shame on me.


6:18 PM  
Anonymous Patsy said...

I would like to see you join us. I think you'd enjoy it too.

7:26 PM  
Blogger VerityINK said...

MORGAN, YOU HAVEN'T VISITED LUCIANNE.COM??????? It's the best news site in town--it's posters move it lickety-split with all the first-run best news. Click on 'original article' for the article, the big, first headline for reader comments. I post as DONAL...

9:10 PM  
Blogger VerityINK said...

Morgan, you gotta join our group! We ALL want you! BEEN wanting you--hey, we don't invite many at all!

9:12 PM  

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